Redeemers in UT2003 just isn't the same as in UT. After grabbing several huge maps and playing UT2K3 all night, I've come to the conclusion that it just isn't meant to be. I hope Schwantz is still wiling and wanting to do a UT2003 Redeemer Arena because I don't think I want to keep it going. I have plenty of maps on UT2K3 HOH that are just to good to waste on Redeemer Arena. Plain DeathMatch with MapVote will work much better with UT2K3. I think as soon as the main man gets back from training and gets his server running, I'm going to switch my UT2K3 HOH over to plain DeathMatch. If the deemers could just steer better and have smaller LOOKING explosions I think it would be cool but I think it's so deep in the code that no one will be able to alter these two variables. What say you about redeemers in UT2K3?<br><br>Hermskii <p></p><i></i>

Yeah Have ta admit that the there is TOO !! big of a blast radius with 2003 !! like ya say if the properties could be changed i.e." Old schooled ". some how, then I think It might work out , but as is it's a little" wild " on the Explosion side of things alright!! As far as doing regular deathmatch, yeah either that or how about insta -gib , with Low gravitiy or something like that??<br>Those are a lot of fun, and are very deadly , ( one shot, -one kill!!) <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> Hey , could put up a poll<br> here on the EZ board and see which way to set it up??<br>Insta, regular DM, or whatever, and that way you'll know what'll get the most traffic!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> !!<br> Talk to ya later, Tri <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>) <p></p><i></i>

I know, many are obvious.<br>1 Missle itself is waaayyy too fat.needs too be reduced by two thirds in diameter to take full advantage of the smaller maps<br>2 It handles like a '73 AMC Gremellin on black ice! and might be a little fast.<br>3 Way too much animation in the Death Cloud itsef simpler is better.But i like the size of the blast,its not as large as the cloud animation suggests.<br>4 Too long before you can refire.(see #3)<br>5 My most irritating change is... The fact that you cant move your character once you take off in your missle.<br>6 A major Mod is greatly needed.<br><br><br>|).|. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

Let's give peace a chance.<br><br>Seriously, I like the way the fattie launches. But I hate the guided missile. Still, it might be fun (and funny) when 8 or 9 of the regulars are in the arena trying to play old-school with the new game! lol! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :x --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/sick.gif ALT=":x"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>It would be funny as all hell to see people trying to guide the redeemer around -- Death's description of its handling is perfect.<br><br>Maybe we should plan to have a 2K3 Tourney just for the side-splitting laughs! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

you know, there are people out there who LIKE writing mods. instead of just waiting around for "someone" to write one that you all like, you can easily go to the boards (infogrames' forums are very active and full of good modders and writers) and ask around ... it's entirely possible that (a) it's not that hard to change the flight characteristics of the missile in guided mode and (b) that a qualified coder would be happy to do the mod for you if you ask nicely. Heck, "radiation poisoning" only exists because I asked and a nice fella whipped up the code -- had it installed on my machine within a few hours of posting. don't be so quick to "it wasn't meant to be" ... be proactive. personally i suspect that as long as the list of changes you want done to the redeemer isn't that extensive (two, three or so) that someone with modding experience could put it together very easily. i'm sure that it would take a lot more work as soon as you introduce "graphical" requirements ... not because the variables are impossible to change, but because that takes graphical expertise along with coding expertise -- and if they aren't combined into one person then you get issues of people coordinating and the like.<br><br>but for the record, there is nothing in weapon effects of ut2k3 that is "too deep in the code to change". there are mods out there that change all sorts of things: damage amounts; colors of beams; all sorts of graphical variables; extra explosion effects; different weapons entirely; hell, one mod even removes ALL weapons and the players fight kung-fu style with kicks and punches; furthermore, mods that make all the weapons identical with UT1 weapons already exist (so someone has transferred the 'characteristics' of the old ones into ut23k already). almost anything can be done -- just have to find the person who knows how and is willing to put in a bit of time to do it is all. sorry to say, but you won't find that person by sitting here and grousing -- there is a wide community of people and developers for ut2k3, you have to tap into that community. you have to get out there (*points at the wide internet*) and ask around -- it's not that hard and most people out there don't bite much. make a list of the changes (be as specific and reasonable as possible: "just like UT1" probably isn't going to excite a modder enough to help you out) and post requests in different community boards for modders to contact you. you may draw a blank ... but you may not ... if it were me and my favorite game-type, i'd take the shot and see before writing it off. <br><br>finally, someone mentioned that the missile flies too fast. i don't think this is right. ut2k3 is very different in scale and movement than ut1 -- the extra 'speed' of the redeemer is needed to allow it to catch up to the characters which also now move much faster. if the missile was slowed down even just a moderate amount it wouldn't be able to catch someone doing a series of wall-dodges (with or without speed adrenalin). it has to be faster for ut2k3 given the increased scale and movement rates. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub44.ezboard.com/bschwantzsredeemerarenaserver.showUserPublicProfile?gid=salmosalad>Salmo salad</A> at: 2/18/03 10:25:10 am<br></i>

Thats all fine and dandy Salmo, but theres that same old story of "If it aint broke..."<br>UT99 has had four years of refinement and for too many of us, UT2k3 just aint there yet(redeemer wise).<br>I mean why switch ...just for cartoony graphics and overused effects.Its like a hollywood movie where they cover up week storyline with visuals.After you've seen them,, and all the "oohs" and "aahs" are over, its just something to slow the action down. <br><br>Nobodys giving up on 2k3,(It is and will be the premier FPS online game out there) but were players not coders. If I wanted to think in zeros and ones, I would be pullin down six figures at Microwhores by now.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>It also seems to me that these modders you speek of could throw together this mod in no time.And would be worshipped by Redeemerites the world over!<br><br>P.S. If you got such a hard-on for UT2k3, then why dont You(*points at Salmo*) talk to your "Radiation" buddy and tell him what the "Redeemer Community" realy wants in his mod.<br>Hell, Herm and Schwantz would give him or her credit for the mod in the appropriate manner.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>|).|. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

death inc.,<br>do you read posts before you respond to them?? i never said anyone here should go do the coding for this mod. i said that people here should ASK for someone to do so out where such requests are common and often get results. I also never said UT2k3 was "there" yet ... in fact, i've said exactly the same thing as you: ut2k3 will gradually get all sorts of cool skins, voices, maps, mods, etc. as time goes by and that hopefully some of these will be to the liking of "the redeemer community". But, what i have said, and what you don't seem to understand, is that people in the redeemer community can actually take the initiative in getting ut2k3 to the point where you will like it instead of just waiting around passively for the redeemer mod to be written -- or not written: if there's no demand for it, why should someone write it in the first place?? And how will they know what the mod should be like?<br><br>From your post:<br>>>It also seems to me that these modders you <br>>>speek of could throw together this mod in no time.<br><br>LOL!! That is precisely my point and it's exactly the reason for my suggestion -- that they probably can and someone quite possibly will write such a mod: IF SOMEONE WHO HAS SPECIFIC IDEAS AND RECOMMENDATIONS GETS OUT THERE AND ASKS. This sort of thing happens all the time (the guy who did the radiation poisoning mutator wasn't a "buddy" of mine, just a coder who saw my post and helped out). That "someone" getting out there should be one of the people in the "redeemer community" because only you guys know what you want. How will the modders know that a group of players wants this particular mod if no one asks? <br><br>Granted, getting something you all are happy with might require a little bit of time: (a) some time to make the posts on some of the ut2k3 boards; (b) time checking the boards for leads and answering questions and the like on those boards; and (c) some time working with the coder/modder (emailing, talking, tweaking, testing) to make sure that the end result is what you guys want.<br><br>I do like ut2k3 very very much -- more than i liked UT actually (and that's saying a lot). Personally, i play UT2k3 enough already -- i don't need another game type to make me happy. So, explain to me why I should be the one to ask a SECOND time on your behalf for this mod when i won't really play it and don't really even know what would satisfy 'requirements' for good deeming? Your attempt at sarcasm is rather ironic given that I already have been proactive on behalf of "the redeemer community" but the results weren't to YOUR liking. Although perhaps i do have a very slight interest in keeping the game growing and incorporating more people like yourselves, mostly my efforts have been because one of the RA peeps is a very good friend of mine and i'd like to see him be able to put his p4 through it's paces graphically. <br><br>The end result of my first attempt to help wasn't what you guys wanted, but that's because i didn't know what to ask for (obviously you guys and gals want more significant changes than a simple "redeemers only" game with unlimited ammo). My only motivation for asking for the radiation poisoning mutator was to help out people here who expressed a desire to play deemers in ut2k3. Call me crazy, but i took hermskii and schwantz at their word: they want to run ut2k3 servers with a redeemer game. You may not want to switch, but some people have expressed a desire to "redeem" in 2k3(Schwantz, Hermskii, Trigon, Mahatma, and hopefully others); i'm just trying to tell them how they can achieve that goal instead of giving up on it so quickly. That same desire to help was also my only motivation for suggesting that one of "the redeemer community", who would be in a much better position to work with a modder to get something you all will be happy with, be proactive instead of just waiting for what might never happen. Personally, it will make not a whit of difference to me whether or not they take down their ut2k3 servers or switch them to something else ... hell, selfishly from my perspective, i should suggest they move them to ctf instagib since that's what i play almost exclusively (even DM insta would be more likely to get me playing there than a redeemer mod). But as a former UT1 redeemerite (I played UT RA for a year, enjoyed it, had my fill and moved on) with fond memories of 'deemering and of some of the old people here, I thought I'd try and help: I was proactive and took the initiative (that fizzled); now, I've offered at least a possible avenue to pursue. Exactly why you're being sarcastic and all I have no idea ... <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>as for "cartoony" graphics ... ummm, you must have bought a different game than i did because UT is more "cartoonish" than UT2k3 is. If you get close up to the faces in UT2k3 many of them have wrinkles, sweat beads, and cracked lips; UT has solid fills. UT2k3 has rounded and craggy rocks, bladed grass, uneven boulders; and convincing broken ground; UT has squares and rectangles and blockish everything and flat ground. Which is more cartoony again? <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> I find it odd that UT2k3 gets lambasted for having such "crappy" visuals and then accused of trying to cover up some other supposed defects with "spectacular" visuals. <br> <p></p><i></i>

Nothing personal Salmo but does every post you put up have to be sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo dang long? I think I'm gonna go blind trying to read all this stuff.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Lets just make this a bit more simple. Salmo, how bout ya just email the guy/gal (buddy or not) that came up with the mod and ask how easy/hard it would be to make any changes to it. Ask if there is any possible way to make it more like the redeemer stuff in regular UT and possibly point him/her to one of the regular UT redeemer arena servers as an example.<br><br>Yeah I know you are pushing for one if not all of us to get on other forums to ask these questions but since you already have a sorce, why not use it? I figure the worse that could happen is a quick "go to hell" or "no". If this was to happen then the push for other options then would fit the situation alittle better.<br><br>|<idcapri<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

And if you could "read between the lines", you would realize that I was trying to get you to do it.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><br>So um... er... uhm... you gonna ask your buddy or not?<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

I don't "have a source" at all since i do not know that persons email. only way to contact him that i know is on the infogrames forums; accessible to you same as me. As i said before, i don't know what will make you guys happy -- and i do not have the time or inclination to work with a modder to test/tweak something i won't use much, if at all. <br><br>As for "possibility", that's not even a question: it *IS* possible ... as i said in one of those long posts you probably went blind trying to read, there is at least one mod out already that makes ALL weapons identical to UT1. assuming that mod covers the redeemer as well (which seems likely), characteristics-wise it's already out there. that needs to be paired with something like the radiation poisoning mutator (only one weapon, unlimited ammo), plus whatever else you guys thinks is necessary. The only question is: who, if anyone, will do it for you? <br><br>as for length, that's always been a problem -- high school, college, masters, phd ... always the same. i won't comment about whether that "issue" rolls over into the bedroom though.... <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

One suggestion: a public call for a mod coupled with a bunch of you going to the boards clamoring for it, might be great incentive for a modder to work on it. A quiet email to one coder is far less likely to work than that. A bunch of poeple posting on boards asking/begging for this mod you very well might get fast results because the modders would know there's demand. That's one way the community works: modders want to know their work will be used and not just sit on one person's computer. Show them there's a group of dedicated fans and they're more likely to feel the urge to sit down and do it. <p></p><i></i>

Who said crappy graphics?!<br>The graphics are great, cartoony, but still great.<br>Graphics alone(or ragdoll physics) dont make the game fun,to me.<br><br><br>|).|.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <p></p><i></i>

the word "crappy" and that comment wasn't directed at you in particular D.I. -- it was more of shorthand for "i hate the way this game looks" comment, which is fairly common. I was just noting the irony of UT2k3 being targetted as poor from both ends of the spectrum is all. <br><br>on the other hand, i find it hard to buy that ut2k3 is "cartoony" at all in comparison with UT. at least to me, it's far far far closer to graphical realism than UT ever was. sure it has it's exaggerated elements too, but far more of them are non-cartoony than UT's. <br><br>At least in other threads, i've gone to great lengths to describe why i am convinced (after hundreds and hundreds of hours of playing 2k3) that its GAMEPLAY is richer, deeper and more interesting than UT. Of course just graphics and ragdolls aren't the only things that make it fun. But my time has been spent playing instagib and not redeemers; thus, what i cannot address is the redeemer play on UT2k3. From what i remember of UT RA, 2k3's redeemers *are* different and a lot more oriented to 'spread fire' because they turn so slowly in guide mode. I see three possible solutions: <br><br>(A) adjust to the new redeemer mode and learn to play and enjoy it as is. I know i found both enjoyment and LOTS frustration in UT RA until i *learned* how to play it ... 2k3 could be approached the same way: (re-)learn how to play redeemers on it...that means putting in time and effort and sucking for awhile until it becomes second nature and you get good with the tools you have.<br><br>(B) get a mod written to your specifications. After radiation poisoning got such a poor reception, this is what i've tried to point out is entirely possible if someone will take the initiative. Hermskii's post that started this thread was very despairing in tone: the faults of deemers in ut2k3 are "just too deep in the code" to change. I'm trying to give you guys some hope that it's not that way at all: if you just get out there and ask you might get exactly what you want (UT-style RA but with the newer graphics).<br><br>(C) do nothing (and this would most likely be coupled with posting in here about how much UT2k3 with or without RA sucks). This seems the lamest of the three options to me anyway. <p></p><i></i>

Hey Salmo !! Thanks for your Idea of going to the boards and asking for Help from the mod Community,I'll go register and get on it as soon as I can!!. As For you Death inc!! got time to pester Sal..Got time to post on boards to help solve the problem!!! Especially as long as you've been around SRA and <br>And Cg's !!! you've done your share of using these servers for your personal" Newb stomping ground" I would say!! 'bout time to give a little time to helping if this is something that you want to come to fruition, would'nt you say??I know I'm new here, but I was told to speak my mind when I had something to say, and Salmo's right!! WE!!! need to get together and get this going...not him!! He's already gotten the : radiation poisoning" mutator for us , I think we can do our part now, to find a solution to getting a UT2003 Red.-Arena that will do what everybody wants it to do , Cause He's correct again on the point that the thing can be Modded to the moon and Back,<br>they DESIGNED it that way !! as that was there hope for the Mod community to take it run with it as FAR as they could<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> !! I couldn't count the number of Mods for UT1, thats out there!!. ... So it's just a matter of attracting some Modders attention , and see if it's possible to do, and get the ball rollin. Thank you ,I hope to see ya'll again if Death does'nt nuke me!!!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <br> <br>ps..thanks again Salmo!!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

<br>When I said the graphics were cartoony ... I DID NOT SAY "in camparison to old UT"anywhere! <br>Some outdoor scenes have a semi-realistic look... but all the source lighting in the other maps make the colors way too saturated with gamma to look "realistic" (thus the Quake III comparisons)<br>With all this freekin typin You could have recoded the entire freekin game.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>The point is: Instead of preachin to us about how to do it why dont YOU do it.You post here quite a bit and for along time, and appear to have a way to acomplish this but all you want to do is bitch at us for making a FEW comments about your beloved UT 1.5.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><br>So if you dont want to help us out...then DONT !<br><br><br>|).|. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>